Things to Consider Before You Switch to a New Course Platform With Elizabeth Averyanova

Are you thinking of switching to a new course platform? Or maybe you're in the beginning phases of deciding which one to choose from? There are so many out there and there are pros and cons to each of them.

On this episode, I'm chatting with Elizabeth Averyanova about what to do when you're overwhelmed with the options in front of you. She's offering some great insight, that no one else seems to be talking about, so you can make the best decision for your business and for your courses.

Elizabeth Averyanova is a web designer, brand strategist, and founder of the design & branding agency Studio Classica. Elizabeth helps coaches and purpose-driven female entrepreneurs scale their businesses with impactful, beautiful branding and DFY design to attract dream clients, elevate their online presence and book out their offers while creating a lasting impact in the world. Her branding and design studio, Studio Classica, specializes in strategic, all-in-one Kajabi websites, high-converting sales pages, and online coaching program launches! She has helped numerous coaches & women entrepreneurs with 6-figure online coaching program launches, impactful and effective landing page creation, and behind-the-scenes business system set up that free up your time from daily tasks - without the design or tech overwhelm.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabethaveryanova/

Work with Elizabeth: https://portal.daesci.com/public/form/view/5feba72a51acd01ae9c69a10 The Essential Checklist for Starting your Kajabi Platform at studioclassica.com/kajabi-checklist

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Lindsay: Elizabeth. Thank you so much for being on the Book Your Dream Clients podcast. I am so excited to have you. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and we'll dig in. 

[00:00:54] Elizabeth: Yes, also I am Elizabeth. I am a web designer, a brand designer, and a, also an architectural designer.

[00:01:01] And I'm the founder of studio Classica. We're a branding and design studio specialized in helping female entrepreneurs and coaches elevate their business with beautiful, impactful design. And we especially focus on Kajabi clients. That's a, that's a mini mini. 

[00:01:19] Lindsay: The Cliff's notes of how you got started. I'm sure there's so much more you could share.

[00:01:23] But I like, I like the fact that you are a, an expert in Kajabi. I told Elizabeth before we started, I am not a Kajabi person and have nothing bad to say about it. I'm just a Squarespace person. And I think right now in this space that we're in. We have to have so many things, right? We have to have a course platform, a website landing, page email.

[00:01:46] There's so many tools that we, we have to have in our toolbox in order to make our business run at full capacity. I don't think we can substitute many of those things. So when it comes to starting your business and you just find out that you need to have all these things, it can feel really overwhelming.

[00:02:05] Or when a course platform changes that their features and you have to scramble and decide if you're going to stay with them or you're going to move. And then here we go. Again, we have five tabs open on our browser, comparing different course platforms, comparing all the things and trying to figure out what works best for us.

[00:02:25] There's. It kind of gives you a headache when I'm talking about it, doesn't it. So what made you decide to niche down to Kajabi? And I'm going to ask you all kinds of kindergarten Kajabi questions. So be prepared. 

[00:02:39] Elizabeth: That's absolutely fine. Let's do it. And I have nothing against Squarespace. Like we mentioned, I, I, we do design.

[00:02:46] First Squarespace, but I'm a big believer in niching down and really focusing on you as a service provider, focusing on very specific niche. So, so that's where we ended up with Kajabi. And so in Kajabi is a really great tool for having all these different things under one platform. So having your email marketing, having your website, having your course or your memberships, having your landing pages, you know, for free opt-ins or free masterclass.

[00:03:14] And an even more things beyond that. So it is a great, powerful tool to have all these things in one place. 

[00:03:22] Lindsay: I mean, years ago when I was setting up my business, I was thinking I might've been really attracted to that right at that moment. But now if I think about it, I think what would I lose all of my traffic that I'm getting to my website.

[00:03:35] So let's say I decided today, I'm going to, I'm going to dump my Squarespace website. I'm going to go to Kajabi. I'm going to put my site on. What would happen to my traffic? Would that just be the. 

[00:03:46] Elizabeth: So that's a great question and it depends on what you built up. And so I imagine you built up a lot of traffic, like organic traffic.

[00:03:55] You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably have a lot of organic traffic, you know, from Pinterest or from SEO. Right? So, so if you switch to Kajabi, that may not be a good decision. If you do have a really strong existing platform, because one thing is your, your URL links will. Different, you know, because that's one, because the block, the way that Kajabi structures, the blog posts it's your, your URL links would end up changing.

[00:04:23] And then the second thing that might be a bit of a headache is all of those posts and blog posts from your existing site has to be manually transferred to Kajabi. Meaning you have to manually go and re do every single blog post. So it depends how robust of a platform you have. 

[00:04:42] Lindsay: Yeah. That that's a big, that would be a massive headache.

[00:04:46] If you have a website for years and like Elizabeth study up a good amount of organic traffic coming, or I think about all the pins that we have. That, that would be really hard. So let's say someone's just starting. Is a Kajabi good for traffic. I haven't heard really any yes. Or nos on that. Are they good for SEO or is something like Squarespace or WordPress?

[00:05:09] Elizabeth: So as CEO, it depends on whether you use it or whether you sort of do that in your marketing. Right. So that's the first step is, are you even thinking about it and doing it? If so, I, I think I've seen with Kajabi. I have seen really great search results, just a short time after creating websites then searching for those people.

[00:05:30] People are searching for those keywords. I have seen Kajabi websites do really well in search ranking. But it works great. It would be great if you're, if you're brand new or you're new to, and trying to decide which platform, then, then at that point, you, you might choose Kajabi and go into it knowing, okay, I need to, I need to do some work myself to set up the SEO and you know, you need to understand something about that.

[00:05:55] And then, then it's a really great tool 

[00:05:58] Lindsay: for that. I suppose it's not like Squarespace just automatically gets you great SEO. You have to produce the content and, and work at it. So there's the same through there. Okay. That is very clear to me. So even if, if someone has a Kajabi website, I've noticed if we go to someone's site, it'll have like Lindsay maloney.kajabi.com or whatever in there.

[00:06:20] Is that how it always has to be, or do they get to have a custom domain where people can't really tell if it is a Kajabi? 

[00:06:27] Elizabeth: No it, so that just as a matter of setting up a custom domain and, you know, it's it's called a sub domain. So everybody who has Kajabi has a sub domain. It's, it's also true with Squarespace.

[00:06:38] You have like a sub domain on the Squarespace platform, but then you can connect your own domain and create custom. So you don't have to have that, you know, Lindsey maloney.my kajabi.com. 

[00:06:49] Lindsay: Okay. Well, that's, that's good too. I, I suppose I remember back in the day used to have a WordPress. 10 years ago, such a nightmare.

[00:06:57] And I remember having my name, my name, and then.wordpress.org or whatever it was. And I thought that doesn't look cool. Okay. So you have your website up. What about blogging? Is it easy to blog on there to produce new content? Like if you have a podcast all of those things, is it easy to do on Kajabi?

[00:07:18] Elizabeth: So on the one hand, it's easy, but if you planned to incorporate blogging in your marketing you know, a lot of entrepreneurs don't, but if you plan on doing. I would, might, I might not recommend Kajabi for that. It is very easy to blog, but it's just not as robust as, as a, and I'm not as familiar with Squarespace's blog anymore, but it's not as robust as Squarespaces.

[00:07:44] And it's certainly not as robust as WordPress blog. 

[00:07:48] Lindsay: So what are some other things. To consider before you make the move. So I, I think the biggest thing is how long you've had your, your existing website how long you've been doing this what you want to do to produce new content. What are some other things to consider?

[00:08:02] Elizabeth: Yeah. Great question. If you are, if you are not tech savvy and you like simple and easy to use, then Kajabi, it can be great solution. If you are tech savvy or you feel like you have more tech, like. Tech technolog. I don't know. They're more tech savvy needs. You know, then you might need more robust online systems for your business.

[00:08:27] So, so I could, Dhabi is very, very easy to use and it simplifies the tech side of things for setting up your, for, even for setting up your blog. It's, it's very simplistic. Let's say. And also setting up landing pages. It's very simple to do. So if you're not tech savvy and don't want to like connect all these tools and if you don't have really, really advanced needs, then you know, you could check out.

[00:08:55] Lindsay: Okay. So does a person have to have everything with Kajabi? Like their site, their course, everything? Or do you find that some clients are just using it for their course and then they still have a Squarespace site or do they kind of pick and choose what they have? 

[00:09:11] Elizabeth: It is a great, that's a great approach. I, we see that a lot.

[00:09:14] It is very common. You, you know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs have all the course stuff on their Kajabi and they, you might even have a separate domain, a separate custom domain for the, for their courses. And then they keep the blog and they keep the core website pages on their, you know, on their other websites.

[00:09:33] So on their Squarespace website for them. 

[00:09:35] Lindsay: Okay. I was checking out the Squarespace member area. I haven't dug into the Squarespace membership area very much to add a membership feature to your site. I wasn't, I wasn't totally impressed to be honest. And I thought that you'd be able to add more content in there.

[00:09:52] It seems like you can't add, if you have a bunch of courses, you're not able to do that. So is there a max of how many courses you can have on Kajabi? 

[00:10:03] Elizabeth: It all relates to your like Kajabi plan. And so like the level of your plan, and there's a limit on if you have the most basic entry plan and there's a limit of three products, or for example, three courses.

[00:10:19] And then if you upgrade, you'll get access to 15 possible courses or products. And then there's a higher level plan, which is a lot more, 

[00:10:29] Lindsay: do they have a shopping cart built in. 

[00:10:32] Elizabeth: Ooh. Good question. If so, if you want some kind of shopping cart feature, definitely not 

[00:10:37] Lindsay: Kajabi. Oh, really? Why? 

[00:10:40] Elizabeth: Yeah. So if you, it, it just doesn't have that functionality or that it doesn't support like a shopping cart feature.

[00:10:46] So if you're selling, if you're selling digital products and you want like a shopping cart ability you know, not Kajabi and definitely if you are selling physical products it's also not a good. It just doesn't have that functionality of like a shopping card and then a checkout. And then, you know, you put, make your purchase.

[00:11:03] Lindsay: You know, I have noticed when I do, I, I have maybe five or six courses that I have that are under Kajabi, that it is kind of clunky, signing up for them. When they send you an in, they have to send you an invoice and it's just, it seems like it couldn't be easier. So what shopping card have you seen hooks up to it really?

[00:11:21] Well, I like I use SamCart. Would that be a problem? 

[00:11:25] Elizabeth: You, you can link something like that. You definitely could link your SamCart. But it just still won't have that shopping cart feature in Kajabi. And then you'll have to, you know, use, probably use Zapier to make a connection. We've done it with Thrivecart as well.

[00:11:40] Integrating the Thrivecart checkout. And the reason for that is they wanted that person wanted to incorporate an affiliate program, which. Automatically pay out every month to those affiliates. And so Thrivecart was possible, but we had to use Zapier again. And so it's kind of making your Kajabi more complex than, than the default.

[00:12:02] Lindsay: Oh, well, I don't think my business would have Brian if I didn't have Zapier. So I would say create a checkout page on SamCart and then create. To flick them into Kajabi and then it would work because that's what I do for I'm in member vault at the moment, and then it automatically adds them in. So Zapier is your friend.

[00:12:20] What would we do without Zapier? Yeah. Okay. So I like the functionality of being a student on a Kajabi course. How is it as a course creator? Do you have any courses on there or how do you like it compared to other course platforms? 

[00:12:38] Elizabeth: So we create, we've set up courses on Kajabi. We've also set up from Kartra and on teachable and you know, a few other platforms and the the structure for Kajabi.

[00:12:51] It makes it very easy. If you have sort of a course that has a structure where you, you know, you progress through the modules and the lessons. And I think if you have this kind of structure, it's really easy to use. And I, for me, I think it's also really easy to make it branded and feel very branded and beautiful at the same time.

[00:13:12] You know, it's technically being either. 

[00:13:14] Lindsay: I know that's important to me is to, if someone just catches a glimpse of my course, I want them to know that, oh, this is Lindsey's course, this isn't someone else's. One thing I really like, and I know my students really like is I'm a member of all. I don't know if you've ever built anything in member vault, but if someone completes a module, you can add it in.

[00:13:34] Like little confetti on the bottom and it'll say, great job Elizabeth, onto the next lesson. And you can add little prompts to keep people going and motivated to go through the course. Are you able to add in some motivational messages to your students or is it kind of like they're on their own and just hit complete and add next next lesson.

[00:13:54] Oh, that's, 

[00:13:55] Elizabeth: that's a really fun feature. Yeah. I've only have a little bit of experience with number of also, I didn't know that. Oh, that's amazing. Unfortunate. Yeah. Well yeah, and Kajabi I've wished we could add confetti or something fun, but it's sadly, there's not. 

[00:14:11] Lindsay: Okay. Well maybe they'll think of it.

[00:14:12] Maybe more people will say like, Hey, we want some confetti here to make us go through a broker. 

[00:14:18] Elizabeth: Yeah, there's only at the very end, like at the very, very end, like a total completion thing that you can turn on 

[00:14:25] Lindsay: what, with all chorus platforms. I think that they all stand out in their own unique way, you know, like member vault, I think that's huge.

[00:14:32] Do they have it that gamification feature and it's, you can track points and there's, there's a lot of things like that to keep students involved. And I think you have to see what. What your students want and makes them want to stick around in the platform to they don't have an app at the moment like Kajabi does, so I can see how, you know, when you weigh your pros and cons, it's a difficult to see, okay, well, Kajabi has an app and this one doesn't, but this one does this and it just like gets so overwhelming.

[00:15:00] How do you help people choose where to go? 

[00:15:04] Elizabeth: Ooh, it's, it can be tough sometimes, but it comes down to the exact kind of business they might have or the kind of offer that they want to put out to the world of whether it's a specific, like, if it's a straightforward course, I, I. Generally, we would end up in Kajabi, I think for certain memberships we have built those in Kartra and that ended up being a good solution for those people.

[00:15:27] And yeah, it just depends on kind of the exact goals and nature of their business. So 

[00:15:33] Lindsay: I've never, I don't think I've been in a course where it's inside. Kartra why is Karsha better for membership? 

[00:15:40] Elizabeth: Is it this, and this is partly my, my experience, my opinion, but it's, it's not, I found it better for memberships where the content is more you know, you might have training calls, you might, or you might have training videos and you might have a coaching call replays that you want to store somewhere and you might want to give some resources to people.

[00:16:00] And so it's kind of a good home for all of that. But I don't, I so far haven't found it good for progressional type learning, like, like through specific modules and lessons, and there's an order. 

[00:16:14] Lindsay: That's a great point to me. I think we have over probably 80 hours of group call recordings that we store in member vault for our soca students.

[00:16:23] Are you able to store calls like that in Canada? 

[00:16:27] Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You are. And you can upload these videos and, you know, any number. I I'm pretty sure it starting to any number of videos and we, you know, there are, we have a lot of clients who do a memberships also on on Kajabi. And so, you know, my biggest thing with storing all those calls though, is it can get started to get overwhelming with like so many months of, of backlog of the 

[00:16:51] Lindsay: replay.

[00:16:53] Especially, if you need to go through them one step at a time that can get really irritating. I'm sure. One thing that I know nowadays, students are like, well, I don't know if I want to be hanging out on Facebook and I want to go somewhere else for community. Have you found any course platforms that have a built-in community where people can go besides using something like a third party, like slack?

[00:17:19] Is there any course platforms that have that. 

[00:17:23] Elizabeth: It's tricky. It's tricky because we don't, we don't want to use Facebook, but at the functionality, it has so many things you can do. We, you know, Kajabi has a community feature but I, I think it's very simplistic compared to what you're used to with creating a Facebook community.

[00:17:41] And for example, you can't go live in the Kajabi community. And the messages like the messaging area, there is a messaging area and you can like post or other members can post, and then you can comment on those posts. So like, like you can in Facebook, but then you can't, it's not as robust and you can go live in there and you can't, it's not, it's not the same, you know?

[00:18:07] Lindsay: What's a recommendation that you use if they don't want Facebook, what's another tool that people could use to have more community assets. It's it's 

[00:18:15] Elizabeth: such a good question. I, I literally don't have an answer to that because people are just so unhappy. If people aren't happy with Facebook, but then they, they not happy with 

[00:18:23] Lindsay: a bunch of hypocrites.

[00:18:25] Elizabeth: They're not happy with the Kajabi community feature. They're, you know, they don't want to do slack. I've seen people try discord. I don't know the right word, discord channels or rooms. I don't know the right word, so don't come at me. But they, they use this platform called discord for creating a community.

[00:18:41] Well, 

[00:18:41] Lindsay: I think a lot of people are like, oh, it's another app that I have to download on my phone or another tab. I have to have open on my computer and check and it just, people get overwhelmed really quickly online. And I think that's why everyone defaults to Facebook because we are zombies and we open it just because it's morning.

[00:19:01] And now I have to go into Facebook and check my groups. Unfortunately, that's what we do. So it always is like, well, I'll just, I'll just keep my Facebook group, but I know that there are people who are in my program that don't even have Facebook. And so you have to think of a way to offer some way to communicate with those students.

[00:19:20] So think of that. Maybe you could just have a slack or I encourage them. Maybe you can boxer me on Wednesdays or whatever it is. So they do have a way to reach you and they shouldn't be punished because they don't have Facebook. I think that's awesome that they don't know Facebook, honestly. So I think it's good to research your options.

[00:19:39] I am in a group program right now where they do have slack and I've never used slack before until this. And it's actually not too bad. I don't have the app on my phone or anything like that. I'm just mindful of when I go in and just go in once a week and that's it because it can just be, and just yet another thing.

[00:19:58] Elizabeth: Yeah. It's, it's I all about simplifying and I don't want so many places to check and things to check either. But that's, it is a great question. And I'm continuing to do research because we have clients who want that community aspect, but not on Facebook. So, you know, let's, hopefully there's some solution that will come.

[00:20:14] That's going to be. 

[00:20:16] Lindsay: Which rings a bell in my head. I've heard of community. I think that's what it's called. Have you used that? Oh, 

[00:20:21] Elizabeth: no, I haven't. 

[00:20:23] Lindsay: I think it's, I don't think there's even a free option, but I've heard a few people say that and I saved it in my favorites because I thought maybe, maybe it would be good to have a backup.

[00:20:34] And I think it is called community. Maybe that's something we can all check into. I think it would be good to have a backup cause you just never know. And you would have a place to kind of fall back in case you know, you decide to move or who knows. So maybe check that out. Okay. So I like this conversation because if you're not all painting rainbows and sunshine on a course platform that you have reached and, and that's how you bring in income for your business.

[00:21:03] You're, you're telling us the truth on is this might not be right for you, and it is right for you. If you're at this level. And a lot of people who are listening to this are coaches who are just starting. So maybe if they're not feeling like they're enjoying where they are, they could try it. Now let's say they want to move off of it.

[00:21:23] Is it difficult to move off or is it kind of the same as if you would move off of a WordPress or square? 

[00:21:27] Elizabeth: Moving platforms. It's, it's pretty much the same. It meaning it's like you have to manually do stuff. It's kind of tedious. It's a bit of a headache. I think it's true with any platform when you're, when you're doing a big switch switch.

[00:21:38] So you know, that's where. You know, that's why people come to us there. They're like, I have a WordPress website. I have a, you know what I actually, sometimes they have do WordPress websites. They have some things on Kajabi, but not everything. They have their email list over in MailChimp. And so it's like, they, they don't and they don't want to do it.

[00:21:56] So they, they come, they go to an expert to come to us. They, we simplify it all into one platform for them. And that's, you know, that's a quicker way to do it, but there's no easy way. It's just manual. 

[00:22:10] Lindsay: Really. So you move emails, email service providers, like you'll grab, everyone's like I'm in flow desk, you would grab all of my subscribers and you would rebuild the funnels and everything.

[00:22:22] Is that what you do is that as far as you guys go, 

[00:22:25] Elizabeth: if the client needs that, and that's what they're hiring us for, then we've done. We have done that before rebuilding funnels in, in Canada. And everything from like the freebie, the freebie opt-in pages to those email lists and the email, the email sequences, and then, yeah.

[00:22:44] And then actually like delivering the freebie and, and it's it's it's oh, it's a lot of work. There's always a lot of different moving pieces when you're trying to streamline it from, from different platforms into one platform. Aye. Aye. Aye. You know, those people who made that decision, they, they were really happy with that direction with their business and it helped them simplify it.

[00:23:06] It did help simplify their costs, you know, with the monthly costs on all these different platforms. And it just, it just gave them one place to go do everything. So. 

[00:23:18] Lindsay: Well, all the costs add up and they can see how it would just be. Oh, and it's nice. Cause they have a hundred bucks coming out every month instead of 40, here, 30 here, and 150 over here.

[00:23:30] And I can see that being a big positive. So you, you work the full package. So if somebody got the full package with you, what would that look like from beginning to end? 

[00:23:39] Elizabeth: It, it depends again on the goals, you know, but oftentimes we are doing the website design. I love Kajabi. I love designing on Kajabi, but I think that is not easy.

[00:23:49] If you, if you're not a designer, I think Kajabi is not easy to make something beautiful. They just don't have as great as a design. They go, where you go to design the web pages. It's just not as good as what I've seen with Squarespace or, well, we'll just use Squarespace. It's the example. So that's often a starting point.

[00:24:12] When people come to us is we will first build out there the whole website and really, really make it beautiful and functional. And then from there, oftentimes we will go into one of their paid offers. So, you know, even this last week we were, we were working on a building out there they're launching a certification program.

[00:24:31] And we were building out all those pieces that needed, that they need for launching this certification program. And it's you know, from the sales page to the whole checkout process to, you know, the thank you page and then the actual like certification. Like portal where people log in and get all the, get all the resources.

[00:24:51] And so we were just going through the whole, you know, funnel and the whole build for that. And, and, and it depends on, you know, from there, for example, that clients also launching a membership. So that's what we'll be going into it as like a third phase. Wow. Is structuring out the whole, all the pieces for the membership line.

[00:25:16] Lindsay: That's that sounds exciting, but yet, oh my gosh. It's like when I talk to Facebook ad agencies and I say, how do you do this every single day? Because that just it just hearing about it. You're you're doing years of work, things that people take honestly years to put together. You're doing this every day for other people.

[00:25:35] So bless you. Cause that has a ton of. That's a ton of hard work. Yeah. How do you do that everyday? Well, 

[00:25:43] Elizabeth: like we were just talking before we were recording, like you have systems, so we're really organized with our with our project management system and everything is outlined what our process is and.

[00:25:56] We we executed and for me, I love doing it. So I don't, that's true. We do it every day. And I don't even, I don't even think about it. We just love, I love working out the beautiful, like making a beautiful and also making it you know, work functionally 

[00:26:09] Lindsay: really well. So what's your favorite? Somebody coming to you with just a concept or when they have, you know, all these different programs that you got to pull stuff from, do you like starting completely from scratch or do you like it when they have things already built and you just gotta grab it?

[00:26:24] What's your. 

[00:26:25] Elizabeth: I, I I'm happy to do both, but I do love like the blank, the blank cards, the first row, the first one where you, you know, when somebody has an idea, they they're ready to do it. They're ready to invest. They're ready to get it off their plate. And they, they, they trust the designer. Trust is a big thing in, in.

[00:26:47] Pudding sharing your, your idea. Usually it's an idea that you've spent a long time, you know, developing and you're not, you're really not sure certain of it, but you, you trust, you know, you trust the idea and you trust the person you're working with. And so those are my favorite. Definitely. I 

[00:27:02] Lindsay: think that would be mine too.

[00:27:04] How can people find out how to work with you and see where they can take their ideas or their business? Ah, 

[00:27:11] Elizabeth: yes. We love doing our VIP design days. It's one of our best most like signature offers you could say, and where we do all of this that we just said. And, but we do it in a very condensed you know, effective but efficient timeline because nobody, nobody likes to wait months for their website or month for their project.

[00:27:31] And so I don't. I don't like either, you know, taking months and months to do that. So we have a very efficient VIP design days where we do this and the best place. If you, if you are just starting Kajabi though, and you're not sure if it's the right platform. A really great starting point that we have is like a free checklist where you can go download this free checklist and it can really help you do the, like the first eight, eight steps to starting your Kajabi platform.

[00:28:02] And that's a great, you know, simple list where you can go and test out Kajabi and see if it's right for you, you know, before you spend a lot of months and a lot of time doing it on your own. And if you want to download that, it's at a studio classic. Dot com forward slash Kajabi dash checklist. 

[00:28:24] Lindsay: Well, we all love a good checklist.

[00:28:25] So I will put that in the show notes. I think this was an amazing conversation. You've probably cleared up a lot of thoughts about where should I go next? If you're debating whether you should move or what to consider. So thank you for being so honest with this conversation, Elizabeth, we appreciate honesty and I think it's really going to help people move forward and keep building their businesses because there's nothing worse than staying stuck in limbo with trying to make a decision on where to go next.

[00:28:55] So thank you for doing that for all of us.

[00:28:58] Elizabeth: Yes, you're so welcome. 

[00:29:00] Lindsay: All right, you guys go follow Elizabeth on social media, go download her checklist and take advantage of that. If you are considering moving, I think this episode will help and I think the checklist will be the cherry on top. Thank you so much for being here with us, Elizabeth.