How to Market With Integrity and Empathy With Janet Mesh

Our interview guest today is Janet Mesh, CEO and Co-Founder of Aimtal, a digital and content marketing agency based in Boston. Janet is an under-30 force to be reckoned with who worked in-house and at agencies in marketing, built a successful portfolio as a freelancer for B2B and tech companies, and traveled to more than 20 countries before launching Aimtal two years ago. She has quickly created success with her company with a fast-growing, fully remote team. Her current clients include well-known tech companies like Trello. Her unique approach to providing services to clients, empathetic marketing, is among the topics we'll get into more today during our interview. 

Show Notes:
Learn more about Janet, Aimtal, and get your own downloadable marketing guides including The In-Depth Guide To SEO + Content Optimization and 7 Proven Ways To Beat The Instagram Algorithm at https://www.aimtal.com/resources/.

Follow Aimtal on Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram here. To see more of Janet, you can follow her on Twitter or LinkedIn.

Episode Transcript:

Lindsay (00:25):

Welcome back to the book, your dream clients podcast. Today, we have Janet mash with us, and I'm super excited to share this episode with you because Janet really focuses on empathetic marketing. And when I saw that, that got me really excited. Cause I feel like there are so many marketing strategies out there that it almost feels like you can't bring that human touch to it, that, that empathy to it. So I love her approach. I was excited to bring her on and I know you're going to love it too. So sit back, relax and enjoy.

Lindsay (00:59):

All right, you guys, we have Janet mash with us today. I am so excited to interview her because she is an under 30 for us to be reckoned with who worked in house and at agencies in marketing built a successful portfolio as a freelancer for B2B and tech companies and to travel to more than 20 countries before launching aim tall two years ago, she's quickly created success with her company with a fast growing fully remote team. Her current clients include well-known tech companies like Trello, her unique approach to providing services to clients. Empathetic marketing is among the topics we'll get into more today during our interview. So Janet, welcome to the book, your dream clients podcast. Thanks Lindsey decided to be here. Yeah. I'm excited to have you on, I think it's important just to give this full variety of all kinds of amazing entrepreneurs.

Lindsay (01:51):

So when I saw that you were coming, I was excited. So why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do and who you serve.

Janet

Sure. So I'm Jenna mesh, as you already mentioned, and I'm the CEO and cofounder of Intel and we're a remote first,, marketing agency based here in Boston, but my teams, all around the country, we would have, one of our team members over in Europe. So, we specialize in digital and content marketing and serve clients primarily in the B2B industry, particularly like tech and SAS companies. And yeah, like you mentioned, we are nearly two years in business, which is super, honestly insane and really exciting, especially, we're here now in 2020, and it's been a little bit of a crazy year I've said. Yeah. And so it's been definitely a super exciting, you know, almost decade of working in the market industry. I'm a, I'm a marketer at heart. I went to school for communications and marketing. And you know, as you mentioned, my introduction kind of navigated through figuring out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to be in my career and know working in house, trying agencies, and what it really came down to is I really, I mean, I love marketing. It's, it's always been what I've wanted to do, which is really awesome to kind of pair your passion with profession. And, but what always was kind of itching in the back of my mind was I wanted that like flexibility of just kind of work where I wanted to work and not really be constrained by someone telling me like, no, you can't take a vacation or go travel and work remotely from Spain for a week, like a week or something like that. So I'm kind of the origin story of like a lot of where my freelancing kicked off is, I was working in house at a company, for several years and I built up their marketing department and then they got acquired actually.

Janet (03:50):

And then it was just kind of aligned where I realized it was time for me to move on. So instead I, instead of just jumping into another job, I traveled down to South America for four months and just kind of saved up enough money to figure out what I want to do and just kind of do, you know, the whole like quarterly crisis reflection. But yeah, it really just came down to, I wanted to work in digital marketing and I wanted to be able to work remotely. And I was like, I'm going to do whatever to, you know, make that, figure that out and make that work, and really put the hustle in to get there. And since that kind of making that decision and committing to that, I started working, I worked with a couple of agencies, cause it definitely a lot, a little bit more flexibility and then, but then realized that wasn't really the perfect fit working, in that capacity. But then really started actually picking up like my own freelance clients and doing that type of work. And I really loved it and it, you know, in 2018 it just kind of got bigger than myself. And I realized I could provide better services to clients and really expand this by starting Intel. So, that's what my business partner and I did, you know, over two years ago and yeah, we're still, you know, growing and super exciting and, you know, working with some really amazing people and our team and clients.

Lindsay (05:09):

I love that. I love how you kind of went where you were in the workforce and then you decided, you know, this is a big sign that I need to really pay attention to what I meant to do and what I love to do. And you took that time for yourself to figure it out. And then you created this amazing company. So your company is running it's over two years old. Why are people reaching out to marketing companies in the first place?

Janet (05:32):

Ooh, that's a good question. So I mean, definitely, you know, even more so than before, you know, of course like the COVID has massively disrupted consumer behavior and just, in general, like how people are like finding information. I mean, it was a really accelerating before where, you know, the first thing that you're going to do when you're looking for something is most likely they're like ask a friend or family member or go to Google. So you're always kind of seeking, you know, the information before, you know, you have to educate yourself before you buy or look into what you're in need of. So that's what we really specialize is like on the online side and helping our clients be found by, you know, their ideal customers and with COVID of course, that like just completely accelerated even more because you don't have these in person events.

Janet (06:25):

You know, even we don't really work in e-commerce, but if you just think of, you know, people can't just walk into the shop anymore and, you know, just kind of like do the window shopping or, you know, just kind of popping around and seeing things in person it's all consuming online. So that definitely, you know, that has, you know, people are coming to us because there's a lot of competition. So we, create very like tailor content to their specific audiences. And which we'll talk about leaders like that kind of empathetic approach to it really attracting the right, the right audience of who we want as customers and then providing that information to them. And I mean, we could probably talk all day about like specific SEO, optimized, optimization, all of that, but it's kind of a beast. But of course there's a variety of tactics in order to connect with the right people and, you know, getting your message heard in your business and your services

Lindsay (07:20):

Context around the timeframe of when we are doing this interview, we are doing this in August, 2020. so There's, it's just been such a huge shift for all entrepreneurs, online entrepreneurs and a digital marketing space. You guys have probably seen this huge growth like you were talking about. I think w the thing that caught my eye was something that you just said it was the empathetic marketing. Tell us about that.

Janet (07:45):

Yeah, absolutely. So this is like something that's always been, I don't want to see more of it coming out of like how the world is, needs a little bit more empathy. It's actually kind of, it's actually, I think it's actually kind of interesting how all of us at this point in time, or at a global level, or going through almost the same experience. So it really can give you, you know, the, like the definition of empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing and like putting yourself in that frame of reference and really like putting yourself in that position. Not just like having like, Oh, I like, I can kind of understand it. It's just taking it to the next level. And what I see since we work a lot in like the tech with tech companies, there's a lot of emphasis of course, like on the numbers and like the data super important to like analyze and understand, but I see like a massive focus on, like using data to drive everything you do.

Janet (08:45):

So you're really just kind of like, okay, so you're seeing like all this information coming in and you're just like, Oh, I got all these impressions on Instagram and, you know, I got five downloads. You, you're just kind of looking at the number of what you're putting out instead of actually like the people we want to be connecting with your customer. So we really, I position this as like empathetic marketing kind of, I mean, I love to say, I mean, I came up with it, but I see it around too, but I really kind of like, my Pitchfork is always coming back to like, who is the person that you want to attract and you want to serve as a client. And we do that. Like, that's kind of like our core of everything we do with marketing strategy and execution is really not even, not even necessarily of the client, like you, of course you want their brand to be really strong, but there's more clarity when our clients can speak to their customers and in a direct way and really understand them.

Janet (09:40):

So, I can give, like an example is yeah, kind of what we do is like, why we, we identify also as a content marketing agency is because we use the content to drive a lot of our, marketing strategy for our clients and the execution, because content, like, so let's say like a guide or an ebook. You know, you're kind of thinking through like a pain point and that's really what it comes down and is like, what is the pain that your, your ideal customer's having and how do you solve for that? Like, what is your service providing to them instead of thinking like, Oh, I want all these people, like, I want all these clients and I want to make a bunch of money. It's like, of course everyone wants to, but like, you're, it's, you're going to be more authentic if you're really thinking of like, what is like a solution I can provide and kind of giving away, like your information, a little bit of, you know, like your authority and your, your, your services, but not giving, I don't know.

Janet (10:36):

I was just say, you don't wanna give away the whole kitchen sink, but you want to give like a couple. Right. Right. And the contents definitely helps. So the most important is that it really helps you one focus on your customer, and then it helps you build trust because it comes back to like people are going to be searching on Google. And this is like a very common consumer behavior now of online marketing. And just how everyone's going digital is that we want to take the time to read reviews or what's information they have, and kind of start to in a way, a little bit form your own bias if you want to work with, a company or not. And that, that content and the information you're putting out online really helps to like, build the trust and that, you know, that trust compounds over time. And then you're already starting to, with this information and this like connection, you're starting to like build a relationship with them. And then it just makes it a little bit easier as you kind of like, I mean, talking technically push them through the funnel, and really starting to develop those relationships with them.

Lindsay (11:38):

I love that approach. It feels really good to me cause I really believe in that too. I think being empathetic is one of my most important things that you can do as a business owner, as just as a human being. And I really feel like you can't go doing that. And sometimes there's so many marketers out there who almost make you feel like if you are an empathetic person and you don't focus on the data all the time, you live and breathe the data, then your business isn't going to move fast. And just, I don't subscribe to that. And I love that you don't either.

Janet (12:12):

I always use it to like inform it's like a mindset, like almost a shift it's like using the data to inform the direction of your marketing and, you know, because the data can also tell maybe you even have like an inherent bias of like what you think would work, but then like that data can kind of like, you know, people are, people are going to tell you what they want. You know, you're just a matter of, you're like listening and really like putting yourself in their position and really understanding like how they're responding and what's working and what's not. And having that reflection and really kind of getting into the minutia a little bit, but keeping like a broader view at the same time so that, you know, you're serving them in the right, the way that they're telling you that they want to be served.

Lindsay (12:51):

It's almost like the, the comparison of buying 5,000 email subscribers, because you want the numbers, but you don't care about the quality. That's kind of how I feel about it.

Janet (13:03):

Yes, exactly. Like, that's what I always say actually like had it written down to like

Janet (13:09):

Size as well. So I'm so happy to say that it's like, it really is the quality

Janet (13:13):

Over quantity and there's such this massive focus on the vanity metrics, which I understand, like everyone wants, I was like crazy followers on social and they want to make it seem like, you know, they have is like massive audience, but it's like, what does that matter if you're not even getting results or you're not developing

Lindsay (13:33):

Lasting relationships. Yeah. And, and being a person of integrity, I don't really feel like, you know, when I went, if I was going to die today, I would be like, Oh, thank God. I had 16,000 followers on Instagram.

Janet (13:48):

Yeah. Actually I heard like a really, I was listening to other podcasts of course. And, the speaker was saying how, and I like, love this. It really stuck with me. He was like, I want to work with clients that want to come to my funeral. And I was like, Whoa, like that's

Lindsay (14:02):

Yeah, that's good. It's bumpy.

Janet (14:05):

But it's, it's an interesting concept because it's like, yeah. Are, are you engaging and connecting with people that, you know, you really truly want to work with, especially if you're in, you know, client-based work. It's like, you're, you're working with other humans. Like it can be exhausting. So it's like all about, you know, protecting that energy and making sure that your, you know, your regular people that usually want to, and, and having fun, you know, having fun with it and, you know, helping them grow their businesses. That's, that's kind of always, I get really excited when I help our clients grow their businesses. It's for fun.

Lindsay (14:40):

For sure. So we have a lot of coaches who listened to this podcast. So what kind of things could you talk to them? Some, most of them are either just starting or they're trying to scale and they probably feel a little bit intimidated for marketing. I know I put marketing off for years. So what are some helpful things that you can share with them?

Janet (14:58):

Yeah, definitely. I think it really what's worked really well for me is getting very clear and this kind of comes back to that like empathetic approach is like, literally put pen to paper or like sit down at a computer and write out who exactly is your ideal client. Like, make like a profile of them and not even like taking it like, Oh, they like to, you know, I don't know, like location, like those kinds of, you know, you can make a buyer percent of it really like understanding almost like the deeper needs that they have. It's like, what is, what are their fears? What are their current challenges? Like, what is, I mean, the other thing that's super interesting about all of this that I see a lot, is that a lot of companies or coaches, or when you're working are always kind of just thinking of yourself, but it's, it's really like taking it the next level to like, understand truly like their world.

Janet (15:49):

And it's like, what is like the one piece how your service or product fits into it? Because I think a lot of the times, like, you know, people are like, Oh, like my service, like it's gonna, it's gonna transform their entire life. And it's like, it's maybe will be one part of it, but they have so many other aspects of it. But like, how does your service like fit into like their entire world and getting very clear? We actually, like at Intel, we've taken the time to like build processes. And they're very clear on this of like who our ideal client is. Of course it's, and you're not always gonna work with like the ideal and it evolves to being like, even better than you thought. But, we identify like, you know, in our conversations or like who we're attracting, if someone will be like a fit for, it will be a fit for them and there'll be a fit for us with our services.

Janet (16:34):

And, you know, there's, I mean, even during like a goal pandemic and a recession there's times where I've actually like, have not moved forward on certain, projects or, clients, because I just, I don't know. It just, I knew that it just didn't align with, you know, the best work we could do for them or it wasn't the perfect fit. And I think that's actually okay. You know, we're kind of, kind of coming back to that, the quality over quantity is that really focusing on like who you want to work with for the long, long term and how you want to like, help, like, you know, improve their lives instead of just being like, I want 50 clients by the end of the year, because I think that that can, I don't know if that like quantity metric can lead to a little bit,

Lindsay (17:19):

A bit of a toxic experience. Well, I think about a lot of entrepreneurs leave the corporate world and one of the biggest things, the problems with corporate role world, I'm, I'm a part of that is you're just seen as a number and you really don't matter on you just don't, you know, it, it is what it is. And so then we take that with us and we're like, we need to get this many students. We need to get this many clients and you're adapting mindset, which is not healthy or sustainable and people can see right through it. Do you agree?

Janet (17:56):

Yeah, I think so too. You know, of course, like if you're running a business, you have to think of, you have to plan for the numbers and you need to scale, but I absolutely think people can see through it and it's like it, and that's what it comes down to. Like, there's, there's so much there, there is not a competition, right? And it's like, if you're not being authentic to yourself and having some standards and like, then, you know, people can kind of just enforce them, move on to the next thing. So, and you know, if people want to work with other authentic people, I mean, there's a lot of mistrust in the world and it's hard to find people to align with. But the power of everything going online, it's, it's also a little bit easier to connect with people that you identified.

Lindsay (18:37):

So I think it's important too, to know that if you feel like you can't stand out with the marketing that you're doing, are you being true to yourself and allowing yourself to feel empathy for the people who follow you? Because if you don't tap into those things, or if you feel like it's not strong enough, then like you said, you're just white, you're white noise. And you're just trying to be like everybody else. But if you really think about the pain points of you three to five years ago, they're probably spot on with the people who are following you and who need your help. So what kind of things do you, did you struggle with like marketing in your company when you first started? Or were you just like, you know, awesome right off the bat?

Janet (19:14):

No, I think there's always something to improve and there's always more I could be doing for sure. So I mean, it's really, it's actually, like, it's kind of funny with when you have an agency it's like kind of a joke where like you've, if you focus so much on your client's marketing, you do like phenomenal, phenomenal job there. And then when it comes back to like your own, you're like, Oh, we probably should apply like similar shies to ours. We don't want to forget about our own company here. So I definitely, like, I would say, like, that was a little bit of a challenge because like, I mean, I love working with like our clients and I love working my team and like, that is like my creative, like zone of genius. And I definitely have had to like, remember to like pivot back to Intel and like really focused, like on our marketing and sales and really understanding, like, getting clear even on our messaging.

Janet (20:07):

And like, like I said, we did the work to like, understand like really who is our, who are our clients? Like, how do we want to communicate to them? Like what content do they need? So it's been pretty fun. We've been like creating like free resources. If you go to like our website, the resource tab, we have a couple downloadable free downloadable guides. There there's a whole one on SEO. Like we were kinda mentioned before, on like paid advertising. And yeah, so, I mean, I'm really just taking kind of, I'm starting to do a little bit of the research and this is like an important for anyone listening where it can, I think marketing feels really overwhelming cause you just feel like you have to do it all. And I'm trying to like stay away from like that mine. So it's like I don't to do everything.

Janet (20:48):

Like we don't need to be on every single social channel and writing blog posts every week and, you know, creating a podcast and blah, blah, blah, like all these things, like it can be, you know, kind of focusing and really trying to like focus on specific channels first. So maybe it's even just like one social media channel where like your ideal clients are. And then like for us it would be like LinkedIn and Twitter, for example. But for other people, maybe it's more Facebook and Instagram. And then, so that's, that's kind of what I have been focusing on is like, try not to do too much, like trying to do enough. That's really gonna drive things forward, but not trying to like overwhelm myself where you get to like analysis paralysis. I think that,

Lindsay (21:30):

Especially that is such a common pain point is you think you have to do all this stuff. And then when you finally finished doing it, you have to start the next week and do it all over again. And you're like, I can't, I can't do this. This is just too much. What do you, what what's working really well? Like if we can keep it simple, let's say all of our audiences on Instagram and I came to you and said, I need to work on my marketing. What's working really well for people right now.

Janet (21:56):

I would definitely. So though, and this is a pretty common one, but it works super well. It's like starting to like batch your content creation so that like every month, like taking like, it's so hard to do just like carve out the time, but carving out the time to like, even just, you can just batch your content creation into like two weeks and like planning, like your post out, is a simple way, like on the feed. But honestly, like that's, that's a great way to grow like your Instagram, profile with like the feed posts really where we're seeing tons of growth and engagement is on stories. And even then the next level is like going live if you have like the bandwidth for it. And, and honestly like the confidence, cause I'm even like scared of that. But it's definitely like, you want to kind of like think of the, not just always thinking of it, of like on like what you're going to be posting like on a daily basis, but like also the using the different, capacities of Instagram.

Janet (22:57):

And then if you're scheduling it out is really great because like where, how you're really going to grow and connect with people is doing the like community engagement and actually like interacting with people on the channel is not just like, I, I always, I love a new like sometimes post, I mean just set someone like post a couple emojis, cause they're trying to like get to like our fall. And it's like, that is not an effective strategy. It's like actually read it, read the caption. And if like it identifies with you then like comment and like have a conversation with that person. That's I mean, that definitely goes a long way and it kind of comes back to like starting to create those connections, with people that you are maybe potentially targeting to work with.

Lindsay (23:36):

It's it's so important to work ahead. I've been working ahead for years. I always plan out 30 days before because I can't fly by the seat of my pants. I'm a planner, that's my personality. And if, if they didn't allow us to plan ahead, then I'd have to find somewhere else to play, but you have to really feel, it works best for you. So if it's a week or a month ahead, whatever it is, but having a little bit of strategy behind it, asking questions, getting that engagement up is so important. And I know sometimes it feels like Instagram is in a slump and there's like some weird going on and all the numbers have gone low. And then people get to that place where, I mean, I have people who will say, well, I had 340 students or followers last week and now I have 329. What did I do wrong? And I think, Oh my goodness, you didn't do anything wrong. So if I could take a Sharpie and put it on your phone where it shows where your follower number is, because it does not matter. So on the numbers just be a human being, that's it?

Janet (24:36):

Exactly, exactly. And like kind of how I was just like, Oh, those people, like, are they, are they truly interested? Are they like you, are they taking, are you like helping them take it to the next level? And are you really serving them with the information? And I think that's what it comes down to too, is like, you know, everyone is, has so many questions and if you have something to say and something to provide, like that's, I don't know. I think that's like the best form of marketing is like sharing your knowledge and information and, and just kind of, it's a little bit of a longterm play. Like I think there's an, there's another conversation about this where people want these like immediate results, immediate, like everything is so instantaneous in our world now. Like you can literally order your groceries on your phone and they arrive to like, I live in Boston.

Janet (25:20):

I can go here. Yeah, I can imagine. But in, you know, if you're depending on where you live, like the access to information, I mean even just access to information is immediate. But so we kind of expect that sometimes in our businesses and they are going to service based business, sometimes get to take a step back and be like, may not be immediate. Like it does take, go can take a while to nurture and grow and, you know, grow, you know, but that's totally fine. You know, we just, we just kind of want to,

Lindsay (25:53):

Yeah, you're one of the first, people in marketing that actually like speaks my language and doesn't make me feel like I need to be this extroverted person. And all I care about is getting people in and nothing else matters. I think it's very good to know that there's people like you out there to hear that.

Janet (26:12):

Well, I mean, you had definitely, I mean, I actually think it's interesting with the extrovert introvert cause I read something where it was like, even if you're introverted, I mean, you obviously, you obviously can be extroverted. You have a podcast and it's amazing. And you're a coach, but it's more of like where you get your, your, how you like fill up your energy is like, and then so for me, I'm an extrovert. So when I, well now it's been a little hard for me cause I was always like, when I needed to kind of like fill up my cup, I would like go socialize or like go to events. But

Lindsay (26:44):

Other people were like, you're insane. I would never, I wouldn't, I would not go talk to more people if I knew, Oh my gosh, exactly. And I, I have, I've been on so many podcasts talking about why introverts actually make really great entrepreneurs because they can operate from their comfort zone. And so I love that topic and I am always going to be this introvert. I mean, even just going online and I see, you know, going through stories and people start talking to me through a story I'm like, Oh no, no, no too loud. Right. But I think that, you know, if I would have thought that I was doing something wrong because I wasn't extroverted like Janet, then my business wouldn't be successful. Then I would just make up this whole limiting belief that would hold me back. So it's like, it's really, you know, you're going to be as successful as you believe you can be.

Lindsay (27:38):

It doesn't matter what personality you are. But it's funny how everything always comes down to just being a good person, a good human that wants to have conversations with people and that wants to help people. So that's, that's kind of my takeaway. Yeah. And like, I mean, if you really can like put yourself in another person's like position and you know, that's this, even like that, that deep level connection that so many of us are craving and you know, immediately like people are like, wow, you speak my language. Or I know that I can like trust you. And, you know, we can work together and you know, of course that's kind of like the angle, but it, of course, you know, it takes us to the next level of really like cute. I mean, it's really kind of like comes on like just humanizing the whole experience of business and marketing instead of just thinking of it as some separate like entity and yes.

Lindsay (28:28):

Like all icky and everything. Yes. Oh yeah, exactly. I love it. Janet, this was an amazing conversation. How can people find more about you and how to get involved with what you do? Yeah. Thank you so much for having me so you can visit us on our website. That's Aimtal.com a I M T a l.com. Or of course you can just find us on social. We are everywhere, but if you really want to, as I mentioned, definitely Twitter or LinkedIn, or you can kind of connect with me, just Jen mesh as well, on the internet, you're able to find us there. Yeah. And thank you so much, Lindsay, this is super fun. Yeah, absolutely. We will put all of Janet's links in the show notes. You guys can go find a connect with her and if you're listening to this and you want to share an Instagram story, take a screenshot of the episode and tag us so we can see that you're listening. So thank you so much for being with us, Janet, and even you're welcome to come back anytime. This was a great conversation. Thank you.

Lindsay (29:31):

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